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Rating (17 posts)

  1. paulfunI

    paulfunI
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    I have a suggestion, mostly to David, but it would be nice to hear what you all think about it.

    Only those who finish a game can vote.

    This way, we could get rid of most of the rascals voting down games without playing them. I've talked to several members and they have all had that kind of a problem. I don't think they read the Community Pages, so they can't get foul ideas from this.

    Isn't this a good idea? If one wants to wait to vote, it would be possible, as long as you have once finished the game, days or weeks or months earlier.

        
  2. niklas

    Niklas
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    I think it's a very good idea!

        
  3. Wentu

    Wentu
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    Do you mean finished or finished with 100% score ?
    I honestly think against stupidity (vandalism) nothing will ever be enough but what u suggested could be a limit to some vandalism.
    The fact is, every one entering here can become a vandal in a few minutes and in some way ruin hours of work of authors. This is terribly annoying. On the other hand, the success of PG is related also to the fact that everyone can enter the site and be an active member in a matter of seconds. Sometimes "being an active member" means " be a vandal".
    In this case you should "elect" a limited number of trusted people to be "game judges". That is, only people who played enough and created enough games are entitled to judge other games. Would this be fair ? i really don't know. I feel myself entitled to judge other games but have I the right to tell another person "no, you are not good enough to judge my games" ? As I already told in another post, this could be another (among so may) tasks of David to look (programmaticaly) in the PG database and find "strange behaviours", such as people giving 1 stars to 30 games in an hour. This is surely a vandal and should be banned and his action nullified. Bt i am aware this is some more work for David and it is not to be expected soon. For the time being, i think we just have to cope with this obnoxious problem.

        
  4. niklas

    Niklas
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    I think he means just finished, have his/her name on the scoreboard. It would limit that some people gives hundreds of 1-star ratings, OK theoretically that would still be possible but I don't think many people, if any, have the stamina.

    To demand that people have created a certain number of games would be a bit unfair to a lot of existing members who haven't created any or just a few games, BoboLo and Kathy to name a few of them.

    Having played a number of games could be a good qualifier but once you have done that you're free to be a vandal...

        
  5. Snavelaar

    Snavelaar
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    I think it's a very good idea. What really would help though, would be non-anonymous voting B-)

    Apart from that I think everyone is free to play, make and judge games. And some games do deserve the lone star. What may be a good game to one, may just as well be a awful game to someone else. I've had some negative feedback on games with very many dots. If someone decides to rate it poorly because of that, so be it. Very few games keep a high score (like 20 x 5 starts in your case, Paul) anyway.

    What bothers me most is that many really excellent games don't get played because the only way to spot them is by checking the new games regularly. Unless your game is featured on the homepage or in 'the' tournament of course.
    It would be nice to have a larger shop window.

    I get more satisfaction from the comments many people leave at my games. Though a lot of gold does add to it...

        
  6. Wentu

    Wentu
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    I agree with Snavelaar. Non anonymous voting would be a start. If you think my game sucks, tell it and help me improve it with a comment.

    And I even more agree with Snavelaar about games don't showing up in the main window, and I am probably the one with more games in it in the last period. But I'd like things to be fair. I have seen lately many high quality games by Silfurkex, Slaaty, Jthventura, Paulfunl, just to name a few, and i am sure there are many others. I think the main window should accomodate more games (of course not too many) and should scroll faster to give anyone the chance to be seen. With what i said, I am probably writing against my own interests but i would also like to publish more games and having them shown. I still have some 90 games to be published but i wait just to give to some of them some chance to be seen: a faster scrolling main window, with many authors having the chance to appear, maybe would be the solution to more than an issue.
    Maybe instead of having a game pushed out of the MW by other 20 games it woud be better to have a game staying in the MW a fixed time and then disappear.
    I don't know if this is a good solution and one of the reason is : i don't know how the MW exactly work. I have had 10 games in MW and some times a game is shown there for 2 hours and then removed, leaving only 5 other of my games.... i am just running experiments in publication ;)

    While i am at it, a question: the game of the day. I almost always see the same games there rotating. Do you like it like that ? Is it meant to be like that ?

        
  7. tickman

    tickman
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    Tough question.

    It is true that there are vandals who just come through and do 1-stars for no reason. Or for a stupid reason: they don't think there should be any game on the subject; the game does not fit some narrow political view; they don't understand that there is more than one definition of the Great Plains in North America.

    And it is true that sometimes I start a great game that I know I don't have the time to finish. Still, I give it 4 or 5 stars.

    Am I wrong for doing that?

    So what's the solution?

    I don't know. Having to play the game would be good. Having to reach a certain status before voting would be good.

    Either plan would reduce the number of ratings.

    Maybe that's the problem. Games with thousands of plays may have only a few ratings. That makes it easy for vandals to target any game, or just engage in random mayhem.

    Maybe you should have to rate a game before you can get your name on the list. Yeah, you can't hold the ATH unless you have rated the game........?!?!?

    There's no real solution for these problems. The current system is not good, but I don't know that there is a possible good system.

    I think we may just have to go along as it is...

        
  8. Dal

    Dal
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    If a game is good enough to hold my attention long enough to play it all the way through, and for me to eventually get a 100% score, I really don't rate lower then a 5. A good game can take a long time to make. Games I don't play or am not into, I ignore and don't rate.

    I personally am not sure if the existing system could be improved.

        
  9. Wentu

    Wentu
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    Well, Dal, in these case there are tons of 5 stars games where there is only a picture and one dot that can hold your attention long enough to get to 100% :)
    To me a 5 stars game must be a mixture of originality and craftmanship, visual appealing and a minum of interest. For instance, there are many games about icelandic language. It is a topic that probably does not appeal many, but Silfurkex games are often very nice to see and play and they are quite useful if you are interested or curious. These are 5 stars.
    It often happend to me to rate a game a 5 stars without even trying to playing it because i am not interested in the topic or i am sure it would take too long to reach 100% (and this would ruin my 100% avarage.... )

    Then there is a plethora of "one picture one dot" games: honestly, these are 1 star games, no questions.
    I am just bored to death by the 100th game about European Countries in the good ol' way and these games usually i don't play and don't rate. If i had to, they would be a 2 stars.
    Honestly I usually give 1,4 and 5 stars. 4 and 5 as a recognition and admiration token. 1 stars are to discourage people to clog Purpose Game with Games without a purpose.

        
  10. paulfunI

    paulfunI
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    Lots of interesting commments you have here. Personally, I only rate five star games since many weeks. If it isn't is "worth" that, I don't rate it. I don't want to make anyone sad... A poor game isn't going to be played anyway, I don't have to write that in the contributer's face. But a game may very well be worth five stars with only eight, nine dots; e.g. a game created to learn Southern Africa countries. In that case, the purpose is achieved. And this is Purpose Games, isn't it?
    I often look for games by Top Rated games. Once someone gets a three or even a four star rating, the game is pushed thirteen pages away. I don't think this is really fair. One game with one five star rating is thus higher ranked than a game with say fifteen five stars and one four star ditto.
    Still, I think my suggestion is good - it will for sure keep lots of games clear from vandalism, and of course you don't have to have 100%. But you need to finish it. If you really want to tell the creator that this game was nice or well created or the like - well, tell him/her with a comment! I saw Itachi doing that with a game slaaty created - "This looks really nice, but I'll play it when I'm in the mood for it." You don't have to vote to show the creator your sympathy.
    It would be interesting to hear David's comment. Is this realistic?

        
  11. Haaaan

    Haaaan
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    Think that ppl have to be able to say what they think about the game by rating. If you dont like the game fully but still thought it was good, you rate 4! After all, this is a democracy.

        
  12. silfurkex

    silfurkex
    Member
    Posted: 5 months ago #

    Thanks, Wentu! I agree, Icelandic learning is kind of a niche market. I don't know whether anyone on here is actually trying to learn Icelandic, but if anyone who is should ever stumble upon them I'd like to think they could be handy.
    On this subject, I've only been here a short while, but I tend to only rate a game if I think it' s really good or really bad. If I don't care either way, I don't bother. But since the purpose of of this site seems to be to learn something from the games, I agree with others who've said that games which are just a picture pulled from somewhere on the internet with one dot are a complete waste of time. Or even with more than one dot, with labels like 'fence' or 'dog's head' or whatever. This is just lazy people making games for the sake of it, not trying to teach anybody anything. I can see that without actually playing the stupid thing, and I have rated such games 1 star without playing them. On the whole, though, since games like this take two seconds anyway, I think Paul's idea is a good one if it will stop people rating negatively games that don't deserve it on a whim.

        
  13. Mano308gts

    Mano308gts
    Member
    Posted: 1 week ago #

    Well, I don't really mind the one or two dot games, but I think there should be a seperate category for them in the main game page. Unfortunately, as someone said before, who is going to go through and organize the games, when there are thousands to sift through. I have made a variety of games, from ones based on books and movies, to a nonsense game just for the fun of it. The ones which have no point are often made in order to help people practice clicking quickly. But low rating without a reason, well, I don't really like that, especially as my games are particularly vulnerable to it. I think that most PGers are sensible enough to rate the game where they think it deserves. But, One man's junk is another man's treasure (human's, if you will). For example, most people couldn't really care less about Elves from Tolkien's Middle Earth, But I do. As far as how I rate games, If I like it, and it has a low rating, I will compensate with a higher-than-it-deserved rating, as then the average shows up closer to my opinion of it. Same goes in reverse. If a game has a 5 star rating, and it is worth only three, I might rate it at a 1, at which point it has an average closer to the 3 I think it deserves.

        
  14. Sunny1

    Sunny1
    Member
    Posted: 1 week ago #

    This is a very interesting discussion, with several important questions and ideas. I want to share my opinion on some of them:

    - I agree with Paul's suggestion, rating until you have finished the game is a good limit, if you played it you have some basis to rate fairly, and someone who is just being a vandal will have less motivation since they would have to finish each game, 1 by 1

    - I, myself, rate games using all the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Each and every game I have played in the site I have rated, I think this is good for all of us, it's feedback for creators (I usually leave a comment too) and it's a notice for players. I try not to be extremely subjective. 1 star would be a worthless game, like when the whole info is wrong (not just a couple of mistakes), I rate 2 stars when the game has a big problem that makes it hard to focus or lean, like awful spelling all over or its concept it not coherent, I rate 3 stars when I think it's a fair game but maybe it's been done a million times, it won't teach you much, etc, I rate 4 stars for good games better than those, and 5 stars to great games (it's very fun to play, or too creative, or a nice challenge, or it teaches very well, great to look at, etc.. any of those will do).... I've given 5 stars lots of times... Anyway, I don't think people should give a bad rating just because they're not interested in the subject. Or all I'd be making would be geography games because it's what most people here seem to love. I want myself and everyone else to be able to create games of diverse areas, some of them few people will be interested on. And if only people who finish them (doesn't need to be 100%) are allowed to vote, then there's a standard and voting isn't so meaningless to them.

    - But I also don't think voting should be mandatory. That'd make people not take it seriously, and maybe they'd rate a 3 or whatever in every game without thinking, just to get out of it.

    - I also think it's important to say, I really disagree with some people that imply in several threads here, that the amount of dot makes a game better or worse than other. A game could have 3 dots and teach something important, or 100 dots and be worth to play. Or 20 dots and be awfully made.

    Anyway, just the fresh opinion of someone very new to the site...

        
  15. paulfunI

    paulfunI
    Member
    Posted: 1 week ago #

    Well, now I can more easily feel the rage, when someone (a fellow member of PG!!!) rated my new game without even play it. With a single star. I. have been eager to see if someone liked it and what do I see... http://www.purposegames.com/game/jewish-refugees-quiz/info

    No, I stick with my suggestion - only those who finishes a game may vote. I never vote on games I haven't played, myself. See also: http://www.purposegames.com/topic/922

        
  16. Argemone

    Argemone
    Member
    Posted: 1 week ago #

    to paulfunl:

    In this case, I think it might be political. I played your game, and as a game in itself it is not bad.

    When I started playing it, it had 2 ratings and 1 star, and the only way that happens is 2 separate people rate it at one star (or one person with two accounts).

    I rated it 5 stars, but that won't help much.

    I think the bad ratings are from someone with a political axe to grind. A holocaust denier, maybe (you know the type: they claimed it never happened, and would like to do it again.)

    Better luck next time.

        
  17. Wentu

    Wentu
    Member
    Posted: 1 week ago #

    If I find a wonderfully realized game with 50 chinese kanji where everything is perfect I do wanna rate it 5 but I don't wanna learn 50 kanji to do that !
    ... that's just my opinion

        

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